Since his death, no-one has seen the itinerant preacher now known as Jesus. Some dispute he existed in the first place and certainly the character depicted in the gospels is a fictional creation. Assuming, however, that there was a real individual on whom this character was based, no-one has seen him in the flesh for 2000 years.
This includes all or most of those who wrote about him in the early years of the cult and whose writing now forms the New Testament. They either learnt about Jesus by word of mouth, as most converts throughout history have done, or they had a vision within their own heads of – what exactly? Those who write of such visions are either vague about what they claim they saw (Paul in Galatians 1: 15-16), are evidently making it up (John of Patmos in Revelation) or their visions are related by third parties many years down the line (Peter and Mary in the gospels, Stephen in Acts.)
Either way, the character believers claim to have seen or have heard about is a fantasy figure, not the rabbi who may or may not have existed. It’s this fantasy who lives in heaven snuggled up to his equally fictitious father, monitoring people’s behaviour, listening into their thoughts while simultaneously observing ‘the destruction the world is bringing on itself’ and doing not a thing to help.
All this from the heaven no Christian can locate: in another unspecified, invisible, undetectable dimension is the best they can offer. Nonetheless, if only more people would turn to him, Super-Jesus would help us solve the problems we face.
Because theocracies have always been so effective. They’ve led to a more just, fairer world as wise compassionate religionists have listened to their heavenly leaders – God, Allah, Jesus, Muhammed – and have applied the principles of their holy books to the running of their societies. Only obstinate sinners have had anything to fear from the arrangement: the degenerate, like those who have sex outside marriage and want access to contraceptives; gay people (especially); women who don’t know their place; women who seek abortions; the powerless; other, ‘inferior’ races; those of other religions, non-believers and atheists. None of these would have a place in Jesus’s new perfect world either, just as they don’t in societies controlled by Muhammed’s holy ones. Jesus’ agents will be happy to exterminate them, just as he instructs.
Magic Jesus as a figment of his followers’ imaginations can be made to say whatever they want, just as he was when he was being created by Paul and the gospel writers. He is a perpetual work in process, constantly changing to conform to what those who claim to know him want him to be. It’s easy to achieve this with a non-existent being from a non-existent place.
rejectingjesus, 
You haven’t read the book, Neil, though this part is toward the end, and you may have given up before reaching that point. Jesus’ agents do not “exterminate” the enemies of God. Jesus does, and that by a simple word.
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I have indeed read the book though it looks like you haven’t. In the verses I quote in the picture Jesus is clearly explaining (giving orders?) to third parties how to eliminate his enemies:
Luke 19:27 – But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.
Matthew 8:12 – But the subjects of the kingdom (Jews, as the context makes clear) will be thrown outside (not by Jesus with ‘a word’), into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Matthew 13:50- This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I was in any case, describing a Christian theocracy of the sort some of your righteous brethren would like to see. In that scenario, I suggest, any number of them would be glad to exterminate your imaginary God’s enemies.
Still as in all things, I expect you know best.
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Luke 19 is a parable, you know. But in any case, those who do the master’s bidding are not identified as people. Matthew 13 identifies angels, but it is actually not the moment I was referring to. That is the moment of his coming in Revelation 19 and not the judgement.
I cannot speak for my “righteous brethren.” Most Christians even here in America do not subscribe to the Christian Nationalist crowd’s agenda and do not agree with the theology of Triumphalism. I doubt they do in England either. http://www.artandpopularculture.com/Triumphalism
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Of course I know its a parable. What difference does that make? It’s a parable about Jesus’ final judgement. (Matthew 13, which doesn’t identify angels at all, has no bearing on Luke 19). Well done though on finding verses in Revelation that contradict what Jesus says in the gospels.
Christian Nationalists are not real Christians. Got it. Almighty Don has decreed.
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I do not have the place to say Christian Nationalist are not true Christians. I do have the wisdom to say they are not acting like it.
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Don: I do not have the place to say Christian Nationalist are not true Christians. I do have the wisdom to say they are not acting like it.
And yet I have seen many Christians weep as they are overcome with the Holy Spirit because God has told them that THEY (white, straight, Christian, American) are God’s CHOSEN PEOPLE. And it is their duty to God to take over the government of the United States and from there the world.
If only we had some objective way of telling which are the True Christians™. But I’m told that’s a ridiculous request. So we have to rely on these subjective feelings. The Christian Nationalists felt the Spirit of God. So they must be right.
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IMO, -IF- there’s ANY reality to Christian beliefs, the ones who could even remotely be called “Christian” are the ones you never hear of (or from). They simply go about their lives doing the things they believe are their “Christian duties.” In fact, in many cases, the only way you know they “believe” is if they happen to tell you.
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Kos: And yet I have seen many Christians weep as they are overcome with the Holy Spirit because God has told them that THEY (white, straight, Christian, American) are God’s CHOSEN PEOPLE. And it is their duty to God to take over the government of the United States and from there the world.
I have seen none. How is it you get around more than I do?
Kos: If only we had some objective way of telling which are the True Christians™.
I think there is “by their fruits you shall know them.” Do they live like Jesus following his directions and living by the principles that motivated him. You can start with whether they love God with all they are and love their neighbor as they love themselves. (I doubt that would include beating up the Capitol police.)
Is that 100% foolproof? No. We are all not what God has for us to be, and there are as well pretty well disguised fakes. But it is a start.
Kos: The Christian Nationalists felt the Spirit of God.
Apply the test. Are they doing what Jesus did? Are they following the principles or the directions he gave us? What I see in their lives doesn’t measure up. No matter what they say about the Holy Spirit.
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kos: And yet I have seen many Christians weep …
Don: I have seen none. How is it you get around more than I do?
Certainly if Don hasn’t seen something it doesn’t exist. So glad that’s been settled.
But seriously, Don, you seem to see things that aren’t there and miss things that are in plain sight. So I don’t think your perception of anything should be taken seriously until you can back them up with evidence.
kos: If only we had some objective way of telling which are the True Christians™.
Don: I think there is “by their fruits you shall know them.” Do they live like Jesus following his directions and living by the principles that motivated him. You can start with whether they love God with all they are and love their neighbor as they love themselves. (I doubt that would include beating up the Capitol police.)
Perhaps the Spirit told these Christians that the Capitol is a temple and it was time to make a whip and clear out the money changers.
Perhaps the Spirit has moved these Christians that it’s time they sell their coats to buy guns and ammunition.
Perhaps the Spirit has moved these Christians that it’s time to gather all that won’t obey their King (gays, trans, liberals, etc.) and slay them before their God.
All these things seem to me to be fruits of the teachings of Jesus.
kos: The Christian Nationalists felt the Spirit of God.
Don: Apply the test. Are they doing what Jesus did?
Absolutely.
Don: Are they following the principles or the directions he gave us?
Absolutely.
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Kos: “Perhaps…All these things seem to me to be fruits of the teachings of Jesus.”
They do not to me. And I do not see Jesus doing them. He cleansed the temple, but temple was as he said my Father’s house. he did not storm the forum in Rome or Pilate’s residence. (Some Jews in earlier times did take up arms against the Romans, but Jesus did not. He did not take up arms against the Sanhedrin, though that was the center of Jewish political rule.
And, if I remember correctly, he said, pray for your enemies, do good to them who despitefully use you. But then I may be mistaken.
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Don:
Triumphalism:
What the hell are you talking about?
Try “Trumpism”
“I have seen none. How is it you get around more than I do?”
You’re lying again, Don.
I live in Texas, and there are already Trump 2024 banners and signs everywhere…we’ve got people walking around with guns on their hips, wearing shirts that promote violence, saying “if you don’t think like we do, leave!”
Have you seen the Greek writing on the back windows of trucks that say
“Μολων λαβε…come and take them”…talking about their guns.
I live and work around these people, and after talking with them a bit, guess what their favorite question is?
“What church do you go to?
THEY’RE ALL XTIANS!
And you are aiding them by your participation in xtianity, even though your brand seems a little more “liberal” than theirs. Don’t worry, if you come here, they’ll kick your ass for Jesus’ sake.
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Such perfect examples of their beloved “gentile Jesus, meek and mild.”
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Whoops! “GENTLE” (not gentile!!)
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Triumphalism: Look it up. It is not Trump.
Texas is weird. Don’t measure every Christian by Texans. I’d say don’t measure anything by Texans. They are a species of their own.
No one is wearing guns on their hips.
I go to a Christian and Missionary Alliance church.
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Don’t measure every Christian by Texans Why not? If they claim to be Christians, to say otherwise would be judging them, would it not? At least that’s what I recall is written in your Good Book.
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The passage on judging does not prohibit discernment. In fact, if you read the whole thing it requires discernment. So, use some and look beyond your Texas experience.
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Koseighty’s point about “gathering all the enemies and slaying them” sounds perfectly in line with what jesus preached.
What state do you live in, Don?
Do they have concealed carry laws?
Or can you carry in the open?
What about transgender legislation?
Have they passed that yet?
The Bible still says that the penalty for homosexuals is death!
That’s the BIBLE saying that.
And all these legislators run their campaigns by saying they’re xtians first and foremost…and people vote for them because they are fellow xtians!
You’re the one with a problem…young people are looking at all these angry xtians that hate everyone that doesn’t look like them, and are leaving the church in droves.
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Goyo: The Bible still says that the penalty for homosexuals is death!
No it doesn’t. That was a law for the theocrasy that was Israel. It is not repeated in the New Testament.
Goyo: What about transgender legislation?
Legislation is a social and national or state matter. Christian are told in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the state if those do not require that we personally violate God’s law. So, if the state legislates transgender laws, that has no impact on me. It only asks that I respect the humanity of all, which is what the Lord asks of me as well.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/christian-nationalism-and-biblical-literalism-independently-predict-conspiracy-thinking-study-finds/ar-AA1covhl?li=BBnb7Kz
Don:
Here’s a study about xtian nationalism and bíblical literalism predicting that xtians are prone to believe in conspiracy theories
How about that, Don?
Most of the the xtians I speak with totally believe in conspiracy theories…anti-vaxxers, stolen election, pushing the gay agenda in schools…how about the congregation of your church, Don?
Do they talk about these topics around you? Do you admonish them to not think like that? Or do you agree with them?
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Don:
“Texas is weird. Don’t measure every Christian by Texans. I’d say don’t measure anything by Texans. They are a species of their own.”
So, are you saying there are no “true” xtians in Texas, Don?
Again, I ask you…
What state do you live in?
I’ll tell you what your concealed carry laws are…
I was thinking of something…
With all the crazy, violent, imagery in just the book of revelation alone, why do you act surprised that your fellow xtians take those passages literally?
Remember, your book has to be interpreted!
You yourself use the “take up the spiritual armor of god, because we’re doing battle!”, in your page of evidence you posted.
It’s not a large step to interpret that literally, and see that “the enemy “ is the government, and that god needs warriors to fight his battles here in “the last days.”
Remember god uses humans to carry out his will…and that includes getting rid of the perverted, pedophilic, liberals that are grooming our children in schools, training them to become drag queens, and atheists!
The xtians here are armed and ready!
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Goyo What state do you live in?
Washington. We’re pretty much the damn Yankees Texans speak of. :)
Goyo You yourself use the “take up the spiritual armor of god, because we’re doing battle!”,
You must not be familiar with the passage in Ephesians. Most Christians would be. It is “12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” It is an allusion to Paul’s experience in Ephesus when he was attacked. He did not fight back.
Goyo The xtians here are armed and ready!
I would move. Leave Texas to the crazies.
To be honest, there is an eastern part of Washington – I actually come from that part. Independent and conservative people in that cowboy country react strongly to the possibility that the government might take their guns. They also think that the direction of the country toward liberalism and the woke culture is wrong-headed. Some are Christians. But they are not taking up their guns to oppose the government.
But don’t try to take their guns away from them, however. And don’t trespass on their land; they have guns in the back window of their pickups.
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Sound like Eastern Oregon — except our gun-nuts want to join Idaho where they can shoot-’em-up to their heart’s content.
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Thank God we have Don to explain His will to us! Without Don we’d have to rely on the Bible – and we all know what a clusterfuck that book is!
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Exactly! I’m so glad Don has the magic decoder ring so he can inform us of the “true” xtianity.
I might be a Methodist…or a Baptist…or a Jehovah’s Witness.. or a Pentecostal…or a Catholic…all of whom believe totally different theologies, that are directly opposed to each other, and justify their beliefs from the same book!
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