Applying Christian Logic

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Apparently, because I’m no longer a Christian, it means I was never really a Christian. (According to Don I just enjoyed the ‘perks’.)

Convinced by the logic of this great insight, I now realise –

I am no longer young and therefore I was never young. (I just enjoyed thinking I was);

I am not now a teacher and therefore I never really was one. (I just enjoyed the holidays);

I am not now a husband and therefore I never really was. (I just imagined it);

I am no longer raising my children and therefore I never really did. (I just spent 25 years thinking I did);

I am not now a university lecturer and therefore I never really was. (I just experienced an illusion);

I’ll be dead one day and therefore I am not really alive now (I’m just – you guessed it – enjoying the perks).

I feel so much better knowing all this. Thanks, Don.

 

13 thoughts on “Applying Christian Logic”

  2. I hardly matters, Neil, whether you were a Christian back when or not. It is about finishing the race not beginning the race. But I still have hope for you.

    I do find interesting the personal; stories of former Christians who are now anti-Christians. I listen to one on YT several days ago, Dennis R, MacDonald. His story is similar to many, maybe to yours. He had been raised a Christian and counted himself a Christian. He was from a Christian family who was deeply involved in Christian work.

    While at Liberty College in the 60s when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed and his assassination was announced in one of his classes, the students stood and clapped. MacDonald found that so unchristian that he was without words. (I would have found it unbelievably unchristian as well.) That was the beginning of his disenchantment with Christianity, his shift to Liberalism, and his ultimate break with Christianity altogether.

    That kind of disenchantment Christianity, particularly Fundamentalist Christianity, is common to many stories of former Christians. So common that I regard ultra-Fundamentalism a heresy.

    But there is really more to all those stories. Almost everyone tells of their fervor for Christ and the faith in that former life. But few tell of a deep personal relationship with the Lord. It seems they had been ultra-religious but shallow spiritually, and like many even in the early days of the church, they didn’t have the foundation to stand the storms, whether those were doubts, attraction to the world, egregious failure of Christian leaders, the doubts common to every young believer, or persecution for their faith.

    The common denominator it seems to me is shallowness of their experience as Christians. They were on the front lines so to speak and active even passionate about the cause but with a weak foundation. And in the environment they found themselves, the former rather than the latter was the mark of a true Christian. And they thought they were.

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    • I understand, Don, how unsettling it can be for those who now enjoy an intensity of faith, which they perceive as a deep relationship with Jesus, to encounter those who once experienced it for themselves but have now seen it for the self-induced delusion that it is.

      Such people represent a threat, for if they can lose their intense and personal faith, then so, just as easily, could those who even now believe they have a meaningful relationship with Jesus. So, indeed, could you.

      This has got to be worrying for you and accounts, I suspect, for your constant retaliatory apologetics here and elsewhere.

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      • Such people represent a threat, for if they can lose their intense and personal faith, then so, just as easily, could those who even now believe they have a meaningful relationship with Jesus. So, indeed, could you.

        Yes. But that is hardly new news. Paul wrote of a number of people who had lost or “shpwrecked” their faith who had been close workers with him. He urged every Christians to guard their faith. And so did Jesus, who said in a series of parables in Matthew 24,25 that being ready for his return required careful attention, not just “faith” in a proposition.

        This has got to be worrying for you and accounts, I suspect, for your constant retaliatory apologetics here and elsewhere.

        Not retaliatory. Hopeful. I hope that you might see the place where you began to drift away from the faith and entertain doubt. Perhaps you may see a way back.

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      • Who said it was news? Christianity hasn’t worked from the beginning. Those with any sense quickly abandoned it, as Paul attests. You’d think he’d have realised that what he was peddling wasn’t working at all. But no, he soldiered on with his wacky fantasy.

        As do you, waiting for Captain Marvel to fly through the clouds and rescue you. There isn’t a cat in hell’s chance I’d return to such nonsense.

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    • Don, speaking personally, I was not a lukewarm Christian in ANY sense of the word! In fact, I was probably more intense in my feelings for Jesus than you are. So what caused my disenchantment? It was similar to what the individual you mentioned experienced. When you are around folks who are so shallow in their faith that all they can do is find fault with other Christians, it can’t help but give you pause. After all, these are folks who claim to LOVE the lord with all their heart … and who are supposed to be emulating him.

      No matter what you might believe, being a Christian is NOT a solo activity.

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      • I agree; being a Christian is not a solo activity. But it is Jesus you follow, not those around you. Every Christian, me included, may do things and say things that are a disappointment to others. As I look back on my life, I am sure I have done so and grieve that I have done so. And I have certainly been disappointed in other Christians, some of whom were leaders and trusted mentors. I have to remind myself that there is only one who can be a true and trusted model, and that is Jesus.

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      • A non-sequitur, Don. We’re not discussing how disappointing Christians might be, though I guess confession is good for the soul.

        If you’re suggesting Nan or I left the faith because we were somehow hurt by other Christians, then you’re wrong.

        While I’ve previously written about Christians’ failure, it has been to demonstrate just how disappointing Jesus is. My leaving the faith, as I’ve noted many times, is for this reason: that the Jesus Christianity promotes – the very one you rabbit on about in this and every other comment – disappoints at every turn.

        As I’ve joked before, what do you call a man who never keeps his promises? Jesus!

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      • It is NOT the people per se, Don. It’s the fact that the LOVE that is supposed to be prevalent among believers is totally lacking. And why do you think this is so? Could it possibly be that your Jesus doesn’t exist … so the people are simply acting “as if” and are (obviously) failing?

        IMO, the people that “follow Jesus” often feel weak and insecure in themselves (for a multitude of reasons). They NEED a “big brother” to help them through life. IOW, their interest is totally self-serving. Those of us who have left the faith finally realized that nothing had truly changed. We had simply been directing our attention to an outside source instead of on ourselves. Once we realized this, we were able to focus on our own strengths and power and guess what? We discovered we are MUCH stronger than we thought we were!

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      • I concur with Nan…I was VERY intense in my feelings for jesus…I kept trying to get my fellow brethren to be as “spiritual” as I was, and couldn’t believe why they wouldn’t take time to pray and memorize scripture like I did.
        I tried to be in a spirit of praying constantly, like 1thessalonians told me to. I thought every action and reaction was ordained by god himself!
        And yes, of course we judged other xtians…”they weren’t as “spirit-filled” as we were”
        And now, 7 years out of xtianity, I can’t believe I wasted all those years on nonsense.

        You’re scared of us Don…we were just like you!

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    • Here all this time I thought I was the world’s leading authority on the life and times of koseighty. Turns out it’s been doncamp all along.

      Don has been blessed with a magic ass from which he can pull any “truth” he needs to make his point. Whether that truth corresponds to reality or not. He, and his ass, is truly one of God’s favorites to be so blessed.

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  3. Neil (OP): Apparently, because I’m no longer a Christian, it means I was never really a Christian.

    I have heard numerous times that I was never a real Christian. Usually from people who didn’t know me when I was Christian.

    I’m sure that saying it gives the Christian a certain amount of comfort in their own beliefs. “Real Christians never leave the faith. So, I won’t ever leave. I’m safe.” Fine. If that’s what you need to feel secure in your beliefs, go for it.

    But it buys that security at my expense.

    It denies the 40+ years when Christianity was not just a part of my life, but the single most important driving force in that life.

    It denies the emotional agony I went through when the largest force, the driving force, of my life was ripped from me as I realized it was all a lie.

    It denies the family and friends who have never spoken to me again after learning of my deconversion. I was lucky in this regard. While some atheists loose everyone from their Christian life, I lost only a few. But the pain was real. These people were saying, in essence, the only thing about me worth liking was my Christianity.

    So much of Christianity relies on denying reality. Then they declare that only they have the Truth.

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    • I thought that if god wrote a book, that it should be the most wonderful, important book ever written!
      I tried to look past the boring, horrible stories, and concentrate on the theology of the book…and could never make it fit.
      I kept wondering why it didn’t reveal amazing concepts that would save our civilization…that would help us better ourselves. Instead, all it talks about is blood sacrifice.
      What a disappointment!
      The most unread book in history.
      And now, if I run into old friends from church, they’re usually Trumpers, bemoaning how horrible society is nowadays.
      I don’t miss those people. I used to be like them.

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